Catmania wrote:

those who commit a suicide have close people who mourn after such a choice of their relative. That's why some people might call them selfish I think.

Conversely, I have also read of cases of people who are appealing to legalize euthanasia who, despite their own condition can still understand the affect it's having on those they love. They would rather free their loved ones from the responsibility of caring for them, and seeing them suffer, (when they also believe their quality of life is not good enough for them as individuals) that's less selfish?

Sophist wrote:

Catmania wrote: those who commit a suicide have close people who mourn after such a choice of their relative. That's why some people might call them selfish I think. Conversely, I have also read of cases of people who are appealing to legalize euthanasia who, despite their own condition can still understand the affect it's having on those they love. They would rather free their loved ones from the responsibility of caring for them, and seeing them suffer, (when they also believe their quality of life is not good enough for them as individuals) that's less selfish?

That's less selfish because close people know that euthanasia will help their loved ones not to turn into veggies who just exist and suffer while suicide is often commited by young and physically healthy people who leave their parents let's say in the eternal grief and consideration why this happened and that their kid could have lived a lot longer.

I had a classmate, raised by a single mum. They were both nice people and when he was 18, he commited suicide leaving the note that the girl he loved rejected him so he chose to die. I don't know if being rejected can be the only reason to kill yourself but his mum was devastated when we came - she kept saying he was too selfish and stupid and how hard it was to burry her only son she'd raised on her own. In such a case I really agree with his mum. It has always been a riddle to me - why and how come him, who was so cool and cheerful But if he had some lethal desease and chose euthanasia, this would have been viewed from a different angle.

At this time in my life, the ONLY reason I would even consider suicide is if I became EXTREMELY ill and there was no hope of recovery. Mostly to spare my family a long, drawn out illness & the expense. If Rob died, I would be devastated (to say the least!), but would still have my children, grand children, mom, etc. here for me.

When I was younger, and thought my problems couldn't be overcome, I failed to take into account the ones I loved left behind to deal with it. Thank God, they got a chance to set me straight just what it would have done to them if I had succeeded.

I see that the immediate cause is the weakness of religious commitment
The human body material and morale
There is an imbalance between things material and moral

Sophist wrote:

Get yourself got up in a full body cast, wire your jaw, have someone insert a catheter, have a loved one feed, clean and move you and then get yourself an eye recognition computer rig and spend your days communicating via that to anyone patient enough to still be in your life. Whilst not perfect, it might suffice. Would recommend being like for at least a year to get a reasonable understanding?

I'd be tempted to call myself a loser at that point -- but then there is Stephen Hawking.

My uncle's situation is somewhat similar. He has to be pushed around in a wheelchair, he's mostly paralyzed, and he can only make some kinds of noises so he can't really communicate. People are of the opinion that there is still some intelligence left in him... I wouldn't want to live like that; I'm not sure it's right to make him live like that.

Aristostomias wrote:

hollycarole92 wrote: Aristostomias wrote: hollycarole92 wrote: Okay, whoever calls a person who commits suicide "selfish" is an a-hole. Plain and simple. Rather, the a-hole is probably the selfish one. HOWEVER, there is never an excuse for suicide, I believe. Suicide is a loser's way out. Tough it up and keep searching for a cure for your depression/suicidal thoughts/bipolar disorder/whatever, no matter how simple or complex that cure is. It IS out there, I promise, you just have to search long and hard for it. And when you do find it, it will be worth it. But don't just give up like a loser. I agree that suicide is the loser's way out; however, I'm also of the opinion that it's important to know when you've lost. Thanks for the agreement! So when do you think the point of losing comes? It's a personal choice; there is no checklist to figure it out. I realize that this way of thinking is rather bad for people who are particularly trigger happy, and ultimately the only way to resolve that problem is to find new ways of thinking for them that make suicide an unnecessary option in the majority of situations. How one goes about that depends on the person, one can have a variety of reasons. I think ultimately life is meaningless, but living is more meaningful compared to death, since in life there is something. However, I also believe that sometimes life can become just meaningless struggle, at which point I think it's better to consider admitting that there's not much life can offer you anymore. Not always is there a cure, not always does can life get better. I can very well understand the perseverance your post embodies, and I mostly agree with it. But I also think that at some point the perseverance can become obstinacy, and there is nothing noble about flogging the dead horse.

How???? Do you really think that no one life has actually amounted to anything then?

hollycarole92 wrote:

Aristostomias wrote: hollycarole92 wrote: Aristostomias wrote: hollycarole92 wrote: Okay, whoever calls a person who commits suicide "selfish" is an a-hole. Plain and simple. Rather, the a-hole is probably the selfish one. HOWEVER, there is never an excuse for suicide, I believe. Suicide is a loser's way out. Tough it up and keep searching for a cure for your depression/suicidal thoughts/bipolar disorder/whatever, no matter how simple or complex that cure is. It IS out there, I promise, you just have to search long and hard for it. And when you do find it, it will be worth it. But don't just give up like a loser. I agree that suicide is the loser's way out; however, I'm also of the opinion that it's important to know when you've lost. Thanks for the agreement! So when do you think the point of losing comes? It's a personal choice; there is no checklist to figure it out. I realize that this way of thinking is rather bad for people who are particularly trigger happy, and ultimately the only way to resolve that problem is to find new ways of thinking for them that make suicide an unnecessary option in the majority of situations. How one goes about that depends on the person, one can have a variety of reasons. I think ultimately life is meaningless, but living is more meaningful compared to death, since in life there is something. However, I also believe that sometimes life can become just meaningless struggle, at which point I think it's better to consider admitting that there's not much life can offer you anymore. Not always is there a cure, not always does can life get better. I can very well understand the perseverance your post embodies, and I mostly agree with it. But I also think that at some point the perseverance can become obstinacy, and there is nothing noble about flogging the dead horse. How???? Do you really think that no one life has actually amounted to anything then?

Whether or not I've lived matters to only humans -- and most likely not very long. It won't take long after my death for people to forget me (most likely ) -- at best when humans go extinct. If life has meaning, it only has it because you give it meaning.

Aristostomias wrote:

Whether or not I've lived matters to only humans -- and most likely not very long. It won't take long after my death for people to forget me (most likely ) [/quote]

Only if you don't make an effort to be remembered.

Their life, their choice. It's sad when a person who would've had other alternatives to try and deal with their problems choose to end their lives, but...what can you do? Dead is dead. I'm fairly apathetic when it comes to these things.

The cause is simple, spiritual void. Religion never tell to suicide because nothing in this life deserve to kill ourself.
Life is beautiful with his difficults moment, and sure that after night there is always a sun for a new day, everyone of us have a problems (health, job, familial...) but if we believe that all this problems will change after never we will think to suicide.