Bear with me. This is going to get a bit crass!

We had a discussion on the inherent paradoxes of Altruism recently, you can apply the same sort of thought processes to pleasure, whatever we do we are doing it in the name of Hedonism? Now you don't have to use the P word at all. One can talk of well-being (Aristotle loved this term if I recall), contentment, satisfaction or even when at it's worst a cessation of suffering. It seems to be something as a species we all have in common? That we always act in ways that will promote these for the self, or others that in turn are important to the self (and so back to the self again!)

Why a religion though? Well when you get down to it, can we attribute certain aspects of religious activity to our (especially modern/debauched) hedonistic behaviour?

Scripture=Self help books?
Ritual=Where to start, look around, you'll see that everywhere?
Faith=Totally! "Tomorrow I'll do/buy X. Tomorrow will be better!"
Worship="There's a new I-phone out?! OMG!"
Prayer="Oh please please don't let the new Cameron film be a steaming pile of dog manure!"
Priests (whatever you call 'em)="Experts" on anything out there? Health, sex, food, music whatever the heck you want there.
God(s)=That's a lot more tricky mind you I'll grant. Oh wait, duh. The cult of celebrity!


Don't mind me, in a flippant mood.

EDIT. Forgot prayer and had a brain fart about gods. Celebrities, of course!

Well I always saw hedonism as a pursuit of those who could afford it but when you hear of "comfort food" and think of the comfort some people would feel just having enough it comes down to a proposed religion which I would not join,i was brought up on "and if thy brother be waxen poor with thee and his means fail him,thou shalt surely open thy hand..So I will give hedonism a miss,but I bet I could conjure up a few goody comfort things to throw in the pool...

Just in case I wasn't flippant enough. Are er...actual religious practices and beliefs hedonistic themselves? (Buddhism is always fun to read because it plays around with this thread topic a lot.)

Wouldn't it depend on your definition of pleasure??

Goell wrote:

Wouldn't it depend on your definition of pleasure??

I think it is true. A number of different philosophers have proposed ideas of hedonism, from Epicurus to Bentham and Mill. I personally think though pleasure alone is too narrow a definition for the highest good, and we need a more comprehensive account. I consider myself a follower of Aristotle and his concept of 'eudamonia' but the ancient philosophers seemed to have a better concept of the good life (not just sensual pleasure but everything that makes a person's life good or flourishing).

Greg3001 wrote:

Goell wrote: Wouldn't it depend on your definition of pleasure?? I think it is true. A number of different philosophers have proposed ideas of hedonism, from Epicurus to Bentham and Mill. I personally think though pleasure alone is too narrow a definition for the highest good, and we need a more comprehensive account. I consider myself a follower of Aristotle and his concept of 'eudamonia' but the ancient philosophers seemed to have a better concept of the good life (not just sensual pleasure but everything that makes a person's life good or flourishing).

As I said in the OP, Hedonism need not just apply to the term pleasure. It can range from the cessation of suffering (reverse Millsian politics seem quite sensible) all the way up to physical, or even, spiritual ecstasy.

Goell, how would you like define it? That's not a sarcastic question by the way.

Let me put it this way, does anyone know someone who is not a follower of the Religion of Hedonism? Please have a ponder about the paradoxes of Altruism again and perhaps something like Self-Flagellation which is by luck both actually religious (at times) and also masochistic as you're looking for examples.

Weeelll,When I first read it the name alphonse Donatien marquis de sade came to mind..He is largely associated with what we have come to call sadism but if I think about it he and his pals were searching for ultimate pleasures but after reading a book about him , or by him , I don't remember,I came to the conclusion that he was like a person addicted to alcahol,or drugs etc,he had to keep increasing the dosage which means to me that he was failing in his endeavour.. About a month after we got married I told the wife to strip to the waiste and I put some jam on her nipple,we didn't have strawberry so I figured what the hell rasberry is good,as I bent to lick it my mind was flooded with the image of a slice of fresh fresh white bread 15x15 with butter just waiting for the jam...I lump hedonism with epicureanism it is like a fetish,,they lose sight of the objective...Imagine a table full of people with towels over their heads to keep the aroma of a quail sized bird from escaping,the said bird being under the towel with them,yes ,they still do it in france....Pleasure for pleasures sake can become a vice and is often the product of boredom..
You are doing great over on "do we give a damn"..