Purely in the interest of BBC impartiality and equality, if we have one thread http://www.interpals.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=60870 it necessitates the other!

Take the word "use" how you like, but pragmatic might be best, be it historical, contemporary, to the individual or to a group I don't much care.

Let me see if I can preempt a few responses. Pick apart at will!

1/ They help us explain our existence, experiences, multi-verse (take your pick).

Very much so in times gone by, certain elements of most doctrines of most religions have creation myths, apocalypse myths and observations on various natural phenomena as could be best measured by the person dictating the text(s). I've half-read some interesting suggestions that a relatively stable period of religious cohesion has actually been a boon to other scientific inquiry in civilizations. Of course, most contemporary religions have changed exceedingly little in the last hmm, one to two thousand years whereas the other tools we employ to help us explain our lot, have, drastically. Religions, arguably, have not kept pace. Is there something religions can explain that we can not, at least try to, by other means?

2/ They bring people together.

Yes, little doubt, they also divide us quite chronically too at times, just into larger chunks. We've developed other means to help get us together (you're looking at one right now!). Religious texts on occasion contain parts that would prefer their members to exclude and vilify certain elements of humanity.

3/ They ensure we are more ethical.

Yup, true especially the further you go back into our histories. Lots of carrot and lots of stick in most religions. Are they necessary for us to be moral? I could/would suggest not.

4/ They provide comfort, succor and relief.

Yes, perhaps by virtue of the above. Are all those who do not involve themselves in religious activity prone to need to seek religions out in order to have these aspects in their lives? It would seem not.

5/ Appear to have got stuck at four....I suck!

There...my BBC inner spirit is stated!

EDIT: Engrish.

Sophist wrote:

3/ They ensure we are more ethical. Yup, true especially the further you go back into our histories. Lots of carrot and lots of stick in most religions. Are they necessary for us to be moral? I could/would suggest not.

I'm not so sure this necessarily true. Of course, you can define morality from religion, in which case there will be one moral religion and the rest are less moral. And furthermore, certain religions have the concept that a higher power forgives your sins if you just ask, and that's actually something I see as promoting rather prohibiting sinful behaviour.

You can make the argument that religious people are slightly happier -- although research suggests this is actually tied to your point 2: only church going people are happier.

Aristostomias wrote:

I'm not so sure this necessarily true. Of course, you can define morality from religion, in which case there will be one moral religion and the rest are less moral. And furthermore, certain religions have the concept that a higher power forgives your sins if you just ask, and that's actually something I see as promoting rather prohibiting sinful behaviour. You can make the argument that religious people are slightly happier -- although research suggests this is actually tied to your point 2: only church going people are happier.

Hmm....okay. Perhaps it should read that they help encourage moral behaviour to other members of that specific religion more often than those outside of it?

The only thing I agree with is number two
After all it's supposed to create 'peace ' right?

Sophist wrote:

Aristostomias wrote: I'm not so sure this necessarily true. Of course, you can define morality from religion, in which case there will be one moral religion and the rest are less moral. And furthermore, certain religions have the concept that a higher power forgives your sins if you just ask, and that's actually something I see as promoting rather prohibiting sinful behaviour. You can make the argument that religious people are slightly happier -- although research suggests this is actually tied to your point 2: only church going people are happier. Hmm....okay. Perhaps it should read that they help encourage moral behaviour to other members of that specific religion more often than those outside of it?

Encourage? Sure. Have any effect in practice? Not so sure.

Aristostomias wrote:

Encourage? Sure. Have any effect in practice? Not so sure.

Would disagree, I personally don't think I think (Engrish) in a religious fashion by and large and day to day. Yet when I try and empathize with those that do then get the feeling it would change my behaviour. Not that I'm an evil axe-murdering SOB or anything I hasten to add!

Action that is encouraged by any given religion is rewarded, action that is not is punished (albeit perhaps not in the here and now, though historically you could suggest that old us linked bad occurrences in real time to bad actions committed). As a motivational tool it is, one can suggest, far better than a secular justice system that can only really rely on the punishment aspect.

If you consider what has been undertaken in the name of various gods down history in order to er.....placate, honour, worship, revere etc etc etc then acting in accordance with some religious guidelines that likely were/are pretty damn sensible from a social point of view anyway, not a big deal. Consider the (wo)man hours involved in say, Stonehenge, those stones used were not at all local. The term "God(s) fearing" thrives till this day!

As ever I'm kinda excluding the general weird moral aberrations, like, say, stoning X people to death because they do Y thing that Z god doesn't apparently approve of.

MangoSauce wrote:

The only thing I agree with is number two After all it's supposed to create 'peace ' right?

Ha. Ha. Ha. Religion was not very peaceful back in the centuries of it's creation and today.
It's only peaceful to those oblivious to other religions and faiths.
An isolation from any one else that does not believe the same things as you.
That is religion.

If you're not a part of it, you're free.
If you are a part of it, they won't let you go even if they have your name written on a tombstone.

Endr wrote:

MangoSauce wrote: The only thing I agree with is number two After all it's supposed to create 'peace ' right? Ha. Ha. Ha. Religion was not very peaceful back in the centuries of it's creation and today. It's only peaceful to those oblivious to other religions and faiths. An isolation from any one else that does not believe the same things as you. That is religion. If you're not a part of it, you're free. If you are a part of it, they won't let you go even if they have your name written on a tombstone.

Then I guess I can say its all a lie
Hence I put quotations over 'peace'
I think it's a way of brainwashing

Religions have peace. But it just doesnt have delivery service. You gotta go to pick it up.
Human s not perfect. He can make mistakes in any time and religions also allow you to make mistakes as long as you understand and repent.
Someone religious can go to pick up his peace from religion but on the way he meets someone else going to pick it. They go until there and they may even fight it s me who s first or it s my right to take firstly. You see! Human nature is like that . And somebody from far will see them in front of religion and fighting they will think : You see! Religion brings fight. So what s problem with religion ?

Religion becomes kinda shop which gives peace free to whom knows how to want.

someone86 wrote:

Religions have peace. But it just doesnt have delivery service. You gotta go to pick it up. Human s not perfect. He can make mistakes in any mistake and religions also allow you to make mistakes as long as you understand and repent. Someone religious can go to pick up his peace from religion but on the way he meets someone else going to pick it. They go until there and they may even fight it s me who s first or it s my right to take firstly. You see! Human nature is like that . And somebody from far will see them in front of religion and fighting they will think : You see! Religion brings fight. So what s problem with religion ? Religion becomes kinda shop which gives peace free to whom knows how to want.

You're not supposed fight with religion. The point is to get along with your opponents
But people are too damn serious about it and take it to heart
Human nature =/= religion

Two different things