Greg3001 wrote:

Suicide does occur I think at least once in the Bible,

Yup, good post. Only quoting that bit for brevity. If I recall, there are quite a few instances of suicide in the Bible, but it's generally pointed out that they are committed by those who have sinned in some way, and that it was that sin that drove them to it? Reserving the sanctity of life just for humans (as different to those adorable Janists! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism) is, if I recall, down to the whole "created in his image" malarkey.

While Christian denominations may have softened their views on it considerably in the last hundred years or so, it's left a big old legacy in our collective view of the topic I'd still maintain. Perhaps why we are dragging our heels on euthanasia legalization in many traditionally liberal nations.

Sophist wrote:

Greg3001 wrote: I think it isn't really helpful to judge a person who commits suicide as being morally deficient. I would agree, it behooves the question where do we get the quite commonly held view that suicide as an act is "wrong"? Often that word with a very overt moral tones rather than as in a mistake? It is often conflated with murder at times. The Bible as a source is not helpful to a modern day discussion on the topic I would suggest, and yet it's often cited.

I'd guess suicide is usually considered 'wrong' or 'right' depending on the needs of the society. If there's a need for suicide bombers, religious leaders are quick to dig up some line in a book indicating that suicide is a moral action. However in 'normal' societies, I'd guess it's often considered to be wrong because it's so expensive for society. Suicides cost about the equivalent of 8 million USD for a year in Sweden and that doesn't even include the loss of future labour. If I was to off myself (and I'm at the most costly age suicidewise), the cost for that is estimated to be about 3 786 146 kr, about 600 000 USD. If I were male the estimated cost would be even higher.

But I don't think it's selfish at all. If a person is suicidal I'd guess that person isn't exactly thinking rationally anyway. It's easy for people to judge when they've never been in the situation. Judging doesn't help anyone and I think it's way more immoral to blame suicidal people.

One of the best things about suicide is that you don't have to stick around for the jerkoffs that are going to call you selfish and troubled.

dolphin_lives wrote:

This to me is a philosophical question: Heres something hypothetical, just a question to stir minds, plus I have been wondering this for awhile....honest answers please and NO arguing, just a good old debate. Anway" why is it selfish for one to commit suicide if they exhausted every avenue of help, from medication, to shrinks, trying meditation, talking to friends, very avenue that they can come up with, asked friends for help, and they are still miserable, still thinking about suicide, why is that selfish of the suicidee? Why is it not selfish for the person/people who tell the suicdee that he or she is being selfish for wanting to die, or why is it that when someone commits suicide people automatically call them selfish? Seriously unless you know the circumstances, how can you call it selfish?

Committing suicide does not only concern you, but affects many people, relatives, friends, colleagues etc. They will be left behind with
a feeling of guilt. Suppose you have discussed this with your family and closest friends and they do not object to your committing suicide,
because of your suffering and your situation is genuinely hopeless, then it would not be selfish. If they DO object (and they probably have their reasons)
and you would commit suicide anyway, then I think they have a right to call you selfish. Your family
and friends know your situation (or SHOULD know it), so they are in a position to judge.

bradjaeger wrote:

One of the best things about suicide is that you don't have to stick around for the jerkoffs that are going to call you selfish and troubled.

bradjaeger wrote:

One of the best things about suicide is that you don't have to stick around for the jerkoffs that are going to call you selfish and troubled.

Unless the attempt was a failure.

BobV wrote:

bradjaeger wrote: One of the best things about suicide is that you don't have to stick around for the jerkoffs that are going to call you selfish and troubled. Unless the attempt was a failure.

True. Six out of seven attempts fail so you'll probably have to face those jerkoffs.

People that consider suicide usually don't see past their own pain & despair - I know I didn't. You just want it all to end. But myself, where I am now, it would be the last consideration, unless I was very mentally ill (or on my way to death physically). I have other people counting on me and I have learned to deal. But simply, no not selfish.

Okay, whoever calls a person who commits suicide "selfish" is an a-hole. Plain and simple. Rather, the a-hole is probably the selfish one. HOWEVER, there is never an excuse for suicide, I believe. Suicide is a loser's way out. Tough it up and keep searching for a cure for your depression/suicidal thoughts/bipolar disorder/whatever, no matter how simple or complex that cure is. It IS out there, I promise, you just have to search long and hard for it. And when you do find it, it will be worth it. But don't just give up like a loser.

hollycarole92 wrote:

Okay, whoever calls a person who commits suicide "selfish" is an a-hole. Plain and simple. Rather, the a-hole is probably the selfish one. HOWEVER, there is never an excuse for suicide, I believe. Suicide is a loser's way out. Tough it up and keep searching for a cure for your depression/suicidal thoughts/bipolar disorder/whatever, no matter how simple or complex that cure is. It IS out there, I promise, you just have to search long and hard for it. And when you do find it, it will be worth it. But don't just give up like a loser.

Saying selfish is bad, but calling them a loser is okay?