la_Turca wrote:

http://jainismus.hubpages.com/hub/Decline-of-Hinduism

Some quotes from this article:

1.) 'In ancient times, Jainism and Buddhism were major religions in Indian subcontinent. Then Vedics managed to destroy these two religions.' Wrong. First of all, Hinduism came into existence much much before either Buddhism or Jainism. So it was the first major religion of the Indian subcontinent. Second, these two religions have not been destroyed by Hinduism. Hinduism is not Taliban that it'd destroy the Bahmian Budhha statues.

2.) 'After complete demolition of Buddhism and suppression of Jainism, a new religion from Arabia entered India. A major part of Hindu community started to convert to Islam. A large portion of people in western parts of Indian subcontinent - present day Afghanistan and Pakistan became Muslims.' Wrong insinuation. They were converted at sword-point. Any person going against the ruling Muslims was beheaded/killed.

3.) 'After 15th century, Europeans entered India with their religion: Christianity. Again another large part of Hindus started to adopt Christianity.' Wrong again. A large portion of the Indian population were forcibly converted to Christianity. This included people from all religions - hindus, muslims, jains, sikhs, buddhists.

The man who has written this article is a fundamentalist Jain. Nothing else can be expected from him.

la_Turca wrote:

http://hindunity.blogspot.com/2008/01/decline-of-hindu-population-in-india.html

Did you actually read this article? It presents muslims in a bad light. The only conclusion this article draws is that muslims are growing at a rapid pace. Nowhere it is said that this is because of conversion from hinduism to islam.

So no. Hinduism is not going to decline. It came into existence much before Islam and Christianity. It has withstood the invasion of Islam and Christianity for many centuries, besides the onslaught of Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism. And still has not disappeared - India has around 80% hindu population.

la_Turca wrote:

very fast growth of indian population and decline of hinduism. not very parallel. while having talked about births..

can you give me a link from where you've copied these figures?

1>
I dont think i will hence forth get my personal life here and lets just forget it,okay?

And i traack converts to all religions.Its not that hard.You just need some time and i got loads of it at my disposal when i am on my vacations.


2>



Well i have already got some wikipedia links into it.I got the names of freakin five scientists that 'were interested'in the concepts of science in islam.They later said they were mis represented.Namesss mann,namesss...

Give me names of people converting to islam cause of science in It...Not for personal reasons.


Keith moore is just one of those guys...




3>

For god sake,you give me links where the videos dont even reveal their names..
Now if you want sources why islam might not the fastest growing religion,there is one documented source which talks about Australia

It was also the fastest growing religion in terms of percentage, having increased its number of adherents by 109.6% since 1996.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Australia#Buddhism

You can somewhat equate Australia with the western world(USA,UK,FRANCE,GERMANY,SPAIN,ITALY),since their core cultural background is based on western values.


This one is about British jails..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/5977093/Buddhism-is-fastest-growing-religion-in-English-jails-over-past-decade.html


There never was and never would be enough data to show significant demographic changes except mass movements if any(like nigeria,china,korea,or the new atheism)...


Something else for you

http://www.pewforum.org/future-of-the-global-muslim-population-related-factors-conversion.aspx




4>


Dude,get your facts corrected.I can assure you that conversion to any religion(except Christianity) takes place for inter religion marriages.I can speak about my country atleast and i can assure you that Islam doesnt attract converts in India.Most Hindus are at logger heads when it comes to even talking or thinking about Islam(or be it any other religion for that matter)...Although its legal but no one dares to convert that openly cause its a large hue and cry and just like yours,our society is too narrowminded.We dont respect eachother choices and there is no room for individuality.That is a sad fact.

It is just one of the many religions in India,most of them have friendly ties with the Hindu majority and we like to keep it this way.Most of muslims arent an educated lot.Most dont know about a country called France....And as a secular country,they have rights to protest.I think banning burqa by france is equal to enforcing burqa by Saudi arabia.


Sources about nigeria,china,korea
Korea
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8322072.stm
China
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14838749
Nigeria
Christianity is growing fast in Nigeria and according to the 1963 census, only 35% of the population at the time were Christian as compared to around 50% today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Nigeria

Mr-Talkative wrote:

Most Hindus are at logger heads when it comes to even talking or thinking about Islam(or be it any other religion for that matter)...

That is the most bullshit thing I've ever heard! If you are at loggerheads with Muslims or people from other religions, then it is your problem. Don't take the liberty of representing others.

wilnottel9 wrote:

la_Turca wrote: http://jainismus.hubpages.com/hub/Decline-of-Hinduism Some quotes from this article: 1.) 'In ancient times, Jainism and Buddhism were major religions in Indian subcontinent. Then Vedics managed to destroy these two religions.' Wrong. First of all, Hinduism came into existence much much before either Buddhism or Jainism. So it was the first major religion of the Indian subcontinent. Second, these two religions have not been destroyed by Hinduism. Hinduism is not Taliban that it'd destroy the Bahmian Budhha statues.

coming first to existence in a place doesnt make it's major religion and i'll remain like that forever. christianity was born in middle east, it came to existence earlier than Islam but Islam is major religion there. same with Asian countries.

you shouldnt take ''destroyed by hinduism'' literally.


i condemn destruction of buddha statues by Taliban.

wilnottel9 wrote:

2.) 'After complete demolition of Buddhism and suppression of Jainism, a new religion from Arabia entered India. A major part of Hindu community started to convert to Islam. A large portion of people in western parts of Indian subcontinent - present day Afghanistan and Pakistan became Muslims.' Wrong insinuation. They were converted at sword-point. Any person going against the ruling Muslims was beheaded/killed.

i disagree. war conditions. you're just like us or you're against us. they were given conditions. today muslim population in india has choice to leave Islam with their will, they're not leaving it.

wilnottel9 wrote:

la_Turca wrote: http://hindunity.blogspot.com/2008/01/decline-of-hindu-population-in-india.html Did you actually read this article? It presents muslims in a bad light. The only conclusion this article draws is that muslims are growing at a rapid pace. Nowhere it is said that this is because of conversion from hinduism to islam. So no. Hinduism is not going to decline. It came into existence much before Islam and Christianity. It has withstood the invasion of Islam and Christianity for many centuries, besides the onslaught of Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism. And still has not disappeared - India has around 80% hindu population.

i have read it. i choose to present non-Islamic sources. it explains about growth of Islam and decline of hinduism in india with numbers and percentages.

if you have any source comparing hindu percentage in 1970 and 2010 in india, i'd like to view it. as i said, being oldest religion doesnt mean it'll always be dominant religion. i havent said hinduism has disappeared, i have said it's being decreased.

wilnottel9 wrote:

can you give me a link from where you've copied these figures?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India

it has census india references at the bottom.

Mr-Talkative wrote:

1> I dont think i will hence forth get my personal life here and lets just forget it,okay? And i traack converts to all religions.Its not that hard.You just need some time and i got loads of it at my disposal when i am on my vacations.

it's you who brought about your friends here. you said you're tracking 104 female converts. i find it quite disturbing and religiously obsessed. i hope your friends read this thread to see what you're trying to do.

Mr-Talkative wrote:

Well i have already got some wikipedia links into it.I got the names of freakin five scientists that 'were interested'in the concepts of science in islam.They later said they were mis represented.Namesss mann,namesss... Give me names of people converting to islam cause of science in It...Not for personal reasons.

if a person converts to another religion for only science, it's plain stupid. people search and study religion with total point of view, not only scientific point of view. as i said earlier, Quran isnt a science book. if religious books had to contain everything about world, they had to be 10000000.....000000 pages.

each conversion comes with personal story and everything is included in their choice, scientific evidence, faith, reality, accurate material in religious book etc.

if you're very willing to hear some names,

Dr. Ian Webber and i had posted his video http://islamreverts.com/?ID=18
Dr. Jeffery Lang and i had posted his video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z73ohM_Rjw
Professor Milan and i had posted his video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IspK651RpY
Prof. Gerald G. Goeringer
Prof. William W. Hey
Prof. T. V. N. Persaud
Prof. Joe Simpson
Prof. Yoshihide Kozai:
“I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in [the] Quran, and for us the modern astronomers have been studying very small pieces of the universe. We’ve concentrated our efforts for understanding of [a] very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts [of] the sky without thinking [about the] whole universe. So, by reading [the] Quran and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe.”
Prof. Tejatat Tejasen
...

http://www.scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php


if you make a research before claiming something, you will have saved time

Mr-Talkative wrote:

For god sake,you give me links where the videos dont even reveal their names..

i ask you again. do you say scientists, profs. etc. arent converting to Islam?


you tell me fastest growing religion in jails i tell you fastest growing religion in world. your criteria is limited, mine wasnt.

Mr-Talkative wrote:

Dude,get your facts corrected.I can assure you that conversion to any religion(except Christianity) takes place for inter religion marriages.I can speak about my country atleast and i can assure you that Islam doesnt attract converts in India.Most Hindus are at logger heads when it comes to even talking or thinking about Islam(or be it any other religion for that matter)...Although its legal but no one dares to convert that openly cause its a large hue and cry and just like yours,our society is too narrowminded.We dont respect eachother choices and there is no room for individuality.That is a sad fact.

except christianity because even christians arent religious anymore, they're becoming atheist day by day, as you have already admitted it before.

conversions come with reading Quran and studying Islam, marriages (they dont convert without reading Quran), and other reasons. i know many german people who converted to Islam because they had muslim neighbours and they're influenced by lifestlye of their neighbours. and as a tour guide, i have seen many tourists converted to Islam from other religions when they heard ezan (azan) in my country. reasons of conversions are various.

about indian society, i dont think all indians are narrowminded, for example i dont think wilnottel9 is narrowminded even though i disagree with her in our debate. i dont know her, i just read some of her posts on forums. there are some indians giving a bad name to india on interpals though, with their views.


i have explained why missionaries are very active in africa and how they're getting africans converted to christianity.

la_Turca wrote:

coming first to existence in a place doesnt make it's major religion

Of course it doesn't! But the fact remains, whether you agree with it or not, that Hinduism has always been the dominant religion in India.

la_Turca wrote:

you shouldnt take ''destroyed by hinduism'' literally.

Well, what else does the author mean to say? When you're talking about 'destroying' a religion, you're talking about forced conversions, destroying of original religious scriptures, destroying of temples etc. And most Hindus kings have not done that to either Jainism or Buddhism.

la_Turca wrote:

i disagree. war conditions. you're just like us or you're against us. they were given conditions.

Exactly. War conditions. Either you're a muslim or you're dead.

la_Turca wrote:

today muslim population in india has choice to leave Islam with their will, they're not leaving it.

Well, why would they? First of all, changing religion has no real advantage to most. People have other things to do as well than worrying about religion. Second, they've been granted a number of benefits (like reservation in educational institutions etc.) by the law, as they are religious minorities.

la_Turca wrote:

i havent said hinduism has disappeared, i have said it's being decreased.

Thank you for your concern, but the decrease is insignificant.

la_Turca wrote:

as i said, being oldest religion doesnt mean it'll always be dominant religion.

None of us knows what the future holds. Any religion could vanish over time.

The wiki link that you gave puts the %age of Hindus in India at around 80%. Here's the official website if you want to dig in more: www.censusindia.gov.in.

i never claimed hinduism isnt dominant in india today, it's 80% of whole indian population. people who you say converted to Islam by force has choice and will to leave it today. they dont leave cause they know about their religion. in india, religions play a great role in daily life. so, it's generally indians' top priority rather than education and economical situation.

wilnottel9 wrote:

None of us knows what the future holds. Any religion could vanish over time.

but you can predict its future if it's decreasing, according to examples in past. we better say ''no one can be sure about it''

wilnottel9 wrote:

Thank you for your concern, but the decrease is insignificant.

i have given you 2 links explaining about growth of Islam and decline of hinduism in india, you rejected them. could you please give me a source telling about hindu percentage of india in past?

la_Turca wrote:

people who you say converted to Islam by force has choice and will to leave it today. they dont leave cause they know about their religion.

when we're talking about forced conversions by Muslim rulers, we're talking about things that happened hundreds of years ago. Those people who were forcibly converted are obviously dead. And their present generations have lived through years of following Islam. I see no need for them to change. Besides, as I said earlier, they have a number of benefits given to them by the law.

la_Turca wrote:

in india, religions play a great role in daily life. so, it's generally indians' top priority rather than education and economical situation.

That is wrong. If religion was the top priority in a general Indian's mind, I assure you, there would've been several more partitions of India (after India and Pakistan) with each resultant country a die-hard fundamentalist. Thankfully, that has not happened. We're more interested in educating ourselves, getting jobs etc., than worrying about religion.

la_Turca wrote:

but you can predict its future if it's decreasing, according to examples in past.

Predicting the future of a religion, by simple extrapolation of data, is very naive. As I said earlier, any religion could vanish over time.

la_Turca wrote:

i have given you 2 links explaining about growth of Islam and decline of hinduism in india, you rejected them.

They're biased links! I will obviously reject them. The first link had historically inaccurate quotes while the second just talks about decline in the number of Hindus. Nowhere does it say that the decline is because of conversions from Hinduism to Islam.

la_Turca wrote:

could you please give me a source telling about hindu percentage of india in past?

No I can't. Coz when Hinduism was born in the Indian subcontinent, there were no govt. officials out collecting data.

On a serious note, Hinduism, according to history, was the only religion in India before the Muslims and Christians arrived. So you can guess at the %age.

wilnottel9 wrote:

la_Turca wrote: people who you say converted to Islam by force has choice and will to leave it today. they dont leave cause they know about their religion. when we're talking about forced conversions by Muslim rulers, we're talking about things that happened hundreds of years ago. Those people who were forcibly converted are obviously dead. And their present generations have lived through years of following Islam. I see no need for them to change. Besides, as I said earlier, they have a number of benefits given to them by the law.

oh i didnt know they were dead already. gee. i was talking about their present generations.

now you're saying that they dont convert to hinduism because of ''benefits'' given to minorities. LOL. you made me wonder what those ''benefits'' are.

this's from indian constitution by article 15:

(1): “The state shall not discriminate against any citizen on grounds of religion, race, caste, gender, place of birth etc.”

(article 14, 16 and 25 say the same thing, equal grounds in government's eye)


on the contrary of your assertion, rights of religious minorities are limited:

2) Muslim parents are not averse to mainstream education or to send their children to affordable Government schools. The access to government schools for children of Muslim parents is limited.

4) The average amount of bank loan disbursed to the Muslims is 2/3 of the amount disbursed to other minorities. In some cases it is half. The Reserve Bank of India’s efforts to extend banking and credit facilities under the Prime Minister’s 15-point programme of 1983 has mainly benefited other minorities marginalizing Muslims.


and other points are here: http://www.southasianrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Minority-Right-Situation-in-India.pdf

very beneficial



religion is a need for indians and indian people are one of the religious nations in world.

wilnottel9 wrote:

la_Turca wrote: in india, religions play a great role in daily life. so, it's generally indians' top priority rather than education and economical situation. That is wrong. If religion was the top priority in a general Indian's mind, I assure you, there would've been several more partitions of India (after India and Pakistan) with each resultant country a die-hard fundamentalist. Thankfully, that has not happened. We're more interested in educating ourselves, getting jobs etc., than worrying about religion.

religious minorities cannot beat hindu population that makes 80% of whole india.


(unfortunately basic education in india doesnt look like very bright unlike focus you referred to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate it has 304 millions of non-literate people )

wilnottel9 wrote:

la_Turca wrote: could you please give me a source telling about hindu percentage of india in past? No I can't. Coz when Hinduism was born in the Indian subcontinent, there were no govt. officials out collecting data. On a serious note, Hinduism, according to history, was the only religion in India before the Muslims and Christians arrived. So you can guess at the %age.

i'll tell it for you. hindu population was more than 90% in past, it's now 80%. that backs my point that hinduism in india is decreasing till now, without force.