Dolorosa wrote:

Sphyrna wrote: Is it at all possible that in any kingdom, and particularly so splendid a kingdom as this, there should be no reward for those who serve obediently and no punishment for those who rebel? Reward and punishment are virtually non-existent here(becouse it is not clear , you can say earthquakes in most of the countries); there must therefore be a Supreme Tribunal somewhere else. I doubt you even realise how utterly ridiculous it sounds, but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

I will play guitar now and also battlefield 3, just istalled it

See with what lofty wisdom and ordering affairs are managed, and with what true justice and balance transactions are effected! Now a wise polity requires that those who seek refuge under the protecting wing of the state should receive favour, and justice demands that the rights of subjects be preserved, so that the splendour of the state should not suffer. But here in this land, not a thousandth part of the requirements of such wisdom and justice is fulfilled; for example, empty-headed people such as yourself usually leave this realm unpunished. So again we say, matters are postponed for the consideration of a Supreme Tribunal.

Sphyrna wrote:

Dolorosa wrote: Sphyrna wrote: Is it at all possible that in any kingdom, and particularly so splendid a kingdom as this, there should be no reward for those who serve obediently and no punishment for those who rebel? Reward and punishment are virtually non-existent here(becouse it is not clear , you can say earthquakes in most of the countries); there must therefore be a Supreme Tribunal somewhere else. I doubt you even realise how utterly ridiculous it sounds, but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. I will play guitar now and also battlefield 3, just istalled it

What, no science book? But honestly, mate, this has gotta be the first post where I actually felt you may have written it yourself, rather than just plagiarized some Holy encyclopedia of long-winded metaphors and fairy nonsense.

Tell me, why do you bother? After all "it is the same whether or not you forwarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith" (2:6).

Dolorosa wrote:

Sphyrna wrote: Dolorosa wrote: Sphyrna wrote: Is it at all possible that in any kingdom, and particularly so splendid a kingdom as this, there should be no reward for those who serve obediently and no punishment for those who rebel? Reward and punishment are virtually non-existent here(becouse it is not clear , you can say earthquakes in most of the countries); there must therefore be a Supreme Tribunal somewhere else. I doubt you even realise how utterly ridiculous it sounds, but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. I will play guitar now and also battlefield 3, just istalled it What, no science book? But honestly, mate, this has gotta be the first post where I actually felt you may have written it yourself, rather than just plagiarized some Holy encyclopedia of long-winded metaphors and fairy nonsense. Tell me, why do you bother? After all "it is the same whether or not you forwarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith" (2:6).

Dolorosa
Allah knows, Important thing is for me people, I love them all and want to see them feel peacefull. and this is possible only with His rules.

"it is the same whether or not you forwarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith" (2:6).

Allah said this ayah to a kind of people group. and I cannot know your heart, your soul.maybe you are different? who knows?

Sphyrna wrote:

Suppose there is a man who is; a good writer, a good architect, a good doctor, a good tailor.. and suppose he is very rich he knows mathematics,physics,chemists and the other sciences. and.. like every possessor of beauty and perfection wants to see and display his own beauty and perfection, that man also wanted to open up an exhibition and set out displays within it in order to make manifest and display in the view of the people the majesty of his rule, his glittering wealth, the wonders of his art, and the marvels of his knowledge With this purpose in mind, the man started to construct a vast and majestic palace so we are in the world

And who created Allah?

To me the notion of "creation" is a very human one. Nothing is really created: houses, mountains, human, these are not in essence different things, but different arrangements of the same. In my opinion, the paradigm of "creation" avoids the unavoidable conclusion that the universe always has, and always will exist.

DougTyler wrote:

Sphyrna wrote: Suppose there is a man who is; a good writer, a good architect, a good doctor, a good tailor.. and suppose he is very rich he knows mathematics,physics,chemists and the other sciences. and.. like every possessor of beauty and perfection wants to see and display his own beauty and perfection, that man also wanted to open up an exhibition and set out displays within it in order to make manifest and display in the view of the people the majesty of his rule, his glittering wealth, the wonders of his art, and the marvels of his knowledge With this purpose in mind, the man started to construct a vast and majestic palace so we are in the world And who created Allah? To me the notion of "creation" is a very human one. Nothing is really created: houses, mountains, human, these are not in essence different things, but different arrangements of the same. In my opinion, the paradigm of "creation" avoids the unavoidable conclusion that the universe always has, and always will exist.

Awesome,
But I already tried that argument more than once.
You'll have no luck convincing some of these people otherwise.
They have been brainwashed.
Read one page of the Quran and you'll find yourself talking in gibberish.

My counter argument was that religion is an idea created by man.
They have forgotten man and taken the idea as the truth and in a sense lost their humanity in the process.
This is the best evidence I can provide... ah, how I want to see this again, but I'll have to wait until the 5th of November,
Remember remember the 5th of November. -V

Evey wrote:

We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail. He can be caught, he can be killed and forgotten, but 400 years later, an idea can still change the world. I've witnessed first hand the power of ideas, I've seen people kill in the name of them, and die defending them... but you cannot kiss an idea, cannot touch it, or hold it... ideas do not bleed, they do not feel pain, they do not love... And it is not an idea that I miss, it is a man...

I prefer to know the man, not the ideas that others have made him to be.
Welcome to the forums friend,

Edit: *Face palm* spell check sucks, edited providence to provide

It is not something that can be done by an ordinary person to make some diagnoses and determinations that could be understood after centuries. The Prophet (pbuh) made statements about tens of different branches of science; those statements turned out to be miracles as the branches of science developed.

For instance, he said, “For every disease, there is a cure.”[1] As the science of medicine developed and the pharmacy of nature was searched by scientists, it was confirmed that this statement was a miracle. If there were a disease that has not been cured for centuries, this claim of the Prophet would be refuted. However, when a disease was determined, a cure for that disease was found after a while as it was expressed by the Prophet (pbuh).

He applied quarantine centuries ago.


“'If you hear about an outbreak of plague in a land, do not go to it; but if plague breaks out in a country where you are staying, do not run away from it.”[2]

Thus, he indicated the existence of tiny organisms that were noticed only after the invention of the microscope and infectious diseases in a period when microbes, bacteria and infectious diseases were not known.

He said, “When a dog licks a utensil, it should be cleaned by soil and then with water seven times.”[3] That is, he advised soil to be used for disinfection. That hadith is a scientific miracle because the existence of the disinfectants like “tetralite” and “terlaxine” in soil was discovered only in this century. Besides, it was also discovered in this century that many harmful organisms that live in the bodies of dogs could also live in the bodies of human beings.

He said, “If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it into the vessel and then throw it away; for, in one of its wings, there is a disease and in the other there is healing.” [4] First of all, it is a miracle on its own that the Prophet knew that the fly could carry germs while the people who lived in that period did not know about it. The fly that falls into a dish generally tries to get out through one wing. In that case, to dip the fly into the dish would make it release the antidote into the dish.

“When a woman companion said that her bleeding never stopped, he told her to continue performing prayers and added that if the bleeding continued for more than a certain time, it would not be normal bleeding but that it would originate from a disease in the veins.”[5] The medicine has proved today that the menstrual blood that does not stop after a certain time passes is an indication of a disease.

The Prophet (pbuh) said, “Ten things are of nature of man” and he mentioned circumcision as one of them.[6] Today, scientists state that the skin that is cut off during circumcision can be so dangerous as to cause cancer because it accumulates dirt and germs, confirming the miracle of the Prophet (pbuh).

He said, “Avoid being soiled with urine; do not urinate while standing.” [7] We were informed that urinating while standing causes serious risks. One of those risks is caused by urine particles entering the body through breathing and sticking onto lungs. Another risk is caused by the increase of some microorganisms when the urinary bladder is not emptied completely. Those microorganisms cause illnesses like prostatitis. Moreover, some substances in the urine in the urinary bladder that is not emptied completely deposit and cause the formation of bladder stones.

The examples given here are like a drop from the sea. As time passes, and as branches of science develop, scientists will confirm the truthiness of the Prophet (pbuh) regarding many issues.

bradjaeger wrote:

Sphyrna wrote: Suppose there is a man who is; a good writer, a good architect, a good doctor, a good tailor.. and suppose he is very rich he knows mathematics,physics,chemists and the other sciences. and.. like every possessor of beauty and perfection wants to see and display his own beauty and perfection, that man also wanted to open up an exhibition and set out displays within it in order to make manifest and display in the view of the people the majesty of his rule, his glittering wealth, the wonders of his art, and the marvels of his knowledge With this purpose in mind, the man started to construct a vast and majestic palace so we are in the world You realize that makes absolutely no sense, right? From "suppose there is..." to "so we are in the world". What does some rich doctor architect douchebag who is good at chemistry have to do with anything? Your analogy sucks donkey dick. In fact, my donkey dick sucking analogy is a better analogy than whatever your "glittering wealth" crap is driving at. Presumably more nonsense about allah being totally awesome?

There's really no need to troll because I'm sure his English isn't even that great so it doesn't make it any better

Anyway
Please explain to me what's so 'vast and majestic' about this world
Unless you call genocide, wars, and racism vast and majestic

I'm wondering if this 'Allah' can make all this shouldn't he be able to stop it?
Oh wait no because none of this is true

Who Creared Allah?

Allah is Unique. He is the only and unique Presence whose Person and nature are free from looking like those of other creatures, from space and time, from change and evolution. He is Eternally Besought One. All creatures need him –be it their creation or their life, in short, in all situations they are in need of Him. He is in need of nothing.

Allah is free from the attributes such as begetting and being begotten. Because He has neither a beginning nor an end. Yes, He existed and there was nothing else but Him. How can it be thought that Allah (SWT), Pre-Eternal and Post-Eternal, has come into existence by any other ones involvement?

He has no partner, no match, and no equivalent. There can be thought no being that could ever be equivalent to Him in His creation, management, discipline, or sovereignty. Someone even with a bit of cleverness knows that this contradictory question cannot be asked about such a Person.

Yes, the one created cannot be a creator. The one whose power and might are infinite cannot come into existence by any others involvement. The one who has no beginning cannot come into existence afterwards. In short, it is not possible for someone to be in a position both being equipped with infinite attributes of perfection of creativity and having infinite deficiencies for being a creature.

The point also has to do with concatenation and it is as follows: In chain of events, there must be a ring that other rings can attach to it. For example, in a train with fifteen railway wagons, each wagon is pulled by the previous wagon. Eventually when we arrive at the locomotive, we do not ask, What pulls the locomotive? There must be a vehicle –locomotive- that has enough power to pull and, that does not need to be pulled so that the train moves properly.

In the same way, if we ask how sugar is made, we will be told that it is made in sugar factory. If we ask where the machines tools in the sugar factory are made, we will be shown their workshops. In the end if the problem does not rest on knowledge and will, the workshop of the workshop will be asked and we will find ourselves in a vicious circle.

A private receives order from a corporal, he receives order from captain, and finally commander-in-chief receives from king. You cannot ask who he receives order from, since he is not the one to receive order but the one to give order. If he too is to receive order from somebody, he also becomes the one who receives order and the one who gives him order becomes king.

It is clearly understood from the explanations made here that the existence of this universe rests on a Creator who is eternal with His Person, names and attributes. It is not possible to ask by reason that created such a Person.

Sphyrna wrote:

It is not something that can be done by an ordinary person to make some diagnoses and determinations that could be understood after centuries. The Prophet (pbuh) made statements about tens of different branches of science; those statements turned out to be miracles as the branches of science developed. For instance, he said, “For every disease, there is a cure.”[1] As the science of medicine developed and the pharmacy of nature was searched by scientists, it was confirmed that this statement was a miracle. If there were a disease that has not been cured for centuries, this claim of the Prophet would be refuted. However, when a disease was determined, a cure for that disease was found after a while as it was expressed by the Prophet (pbuh).

What miracle? Where is the cure for AIDS, cancer?

Quote:

He applied quarantine centuries ago. “'If you hear about an outbreak of plague in a land, do not go to it; but if plague breaks out in a country where you are staying, do not run away from it.”[2] Thus, he indicated the existence of tiny organisms that were noticed only after the invention of the microscope and infectious diseases in a period when microbes, bacteria and infectious diseases were not known.

There is no reference to tiny organisms in your quote at all.

Quote:

He said, “When a dog licks a utensil, it should be cleaned by soil and then with water seven times.”[3] That is, he advised soil to be used for disinfection. That hadith is a scientific miracle because the existence of the disinfectants like “tetralite” and “terlaxine” in soil was discovered only in this century. Besides, it was also discovered in this century that many harmful organisms that live in the bodies of dogs could also live in the bodies of human beings. He said, “If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it into the vessel and then throw it away; for, in one of its wings, there is a disease and in the other there is healing.” [4] First of all, it is a miracle on its own that the Prophet knew that the fly could carry germs while the people who lived in that period did not know about it. The fly that falls into a dish generally tries to get out through one wing. In that case, to dip the fly into the dish would make it release the antidote into the dish. “When a woman companion said that her bleeding never stopped, he told her to continue performing prayers and added that if the bleeding continued for more than a certain time, it would not be normal bleeding but that it would originate from a disease in the veins.”[5] The medicine has proved today that the menstrual blood that does not stop after a certain time passes is an indication of a disease.

Duh

Did he also "predict" that excessive vomiting is an indication of disease?

Quote:

The Prophet (pbuh) said, “Ten things are of nature of man” and he mentioned circumcision as one of them.[6] Today, scientists state that the skin that is cut off during circumcision can be so dangerous as to cause cancer because it accumulates dirt and germs, confirming the miracle of the Prophet (pbuh).

There is no real health benefit for circumcision.

Quote:

He said, “Avoid being soiled with urine; do not urinate while standing.” [7] We were informed that urinating while standing causes serious risks. One of those risks is caused by urine particles entering the body through breathing and sticking onto lungs. Another risk is caused by the increase of some microorganisms when the urinary bladder is not emptied completely. Those microorganisms cause illnesses like prostatitis. Moreover, some substances in the urine in the urinary bladder that is not emptied completely deposit and cause the formation of bladder stones.

A wise man once said:
"Do not urinate against the wind."

Quote:

The examples given here are like a drop from the sea. As time passes, and as branches of science develop, scientists will confirm the truthiness of the Prophet (pbuh) regarding many issues.